[19:08] <+James_Knevitt> Well, I'm James Knevitt. Among other things, I wrote a systemless setting called CITY OF CLOCKS (published by Battlefield Press). It's city-based quasi-fantasy with an anachronistic streak. It started out as a love letter to steampunk, and ended up being a Dear John letter instead. (done)
[19:08] <+James_Knevitt> (I should add I'm also an active freelancer and current ORE Line Editor for Arc Dream Publishing.) (done)
[19:08] <~Dan> Interesting. :)
[19:08] <~Dan> Would anyone like to start us off with any questions, or shall I do the honors?
[19:09] <~Dan> Okay! I shall start us off.
[19:09] <+xyphoid_> oooh tell us about the Dear John part
[19:09] <~Dan> Or, Xyphoid can. :)
[19:10] <+xyphoid_> because man I love me some steampunk critique and reading that sentence made my ears prick up
[19:12] <+James_Knevitt> Well, when I started writing CITY OF CLOCKS in 2003ish, Eberron was just announced, Exalted was in full swing, and steampunk (or at least the fantasy version thereof) was starting to take hold in gaming products. This is well before the big steampunk explosion of the mid/late 2000s that really exposed the fandom of the subgenre.
[19:14] <+James_Knevitt> I was pretty into it, and the very early drafts of CoC reflected that. A bunch of stuff happened, and I had to put CoC aside for a while, and in the meantime steampunk really took off as its own thing. This, of course, led to a huge portion of the fandom celebrating steampunk for the aesthetics rather than the 'form-follows-function' aspect.
[19:15] <+James_Knevitt> And that kinda drives me crazy! For me, steampunk is all about the function, rather than "let's glue gears on things because it looks cool". I was really soured on it (especially since all my favorite things were suddenly touched by this steampunk aesthetics-first idea in one way or another.
[19:16] <+James_Knevitt> So basically steampunk as a celebrated subgenre went in a direction I really did not like, and my later drafts of CoC (when I returned to it in the late 2000s/early 2010s) reflect that.
[19:17] <+James_Knevitt> It's a Dear John letter in the sense that it hits all the steampunk notes, but in a way that most folks are both totally expecting and will be quite surprised by (hopefully). It's my way of saying "this is my steampunk, and I'm sorry it didn't work out between us".
[19:17] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[19:18] <+James_Knevitt> (But don't call City of Clocks steampunk. That will drive me insane.) (super really done)
[19:18] <+Silverlion> Back.
[19:18] <~Dan> Hmm. So how do you distinguish it from steampunk?
[19:18] <~Dan> (wb, Sil!
[19:19] <+Silverlion> What kind of system does it use?
[19:20] <+xyphoid_> it's a setting book, not a system book right?
[19:20] <+xyphoid_> so no system
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[19:21] <+James_Knevitt> Steampunk is generally pseudo-Victorian, but with anachronistic devices based on the tech of the day. City of Clocks is more forward (Edwardian with a touch of Interwar period) that features purely fantastic devices and methods. I didn't try to justify tech based on 'real-world' ideas. I just made stuff up because it sounded neat.
[19:22] <+James_Knevitt> And correct, it's systemless. It was going to be an in-house setting for Dream Pod 9 in its very early stages, but when things fell through with DP9 in ~2004, I decided just to write it systemless.
[19:22] <~Dan> So less "this is a steam whatzis," and more "this is a whatzis"?
[19:23] <+James_Knevitt> Oh, there's steam, but its from a really weird place and it's totally made up. In City of Clocks, you don't burn anything to get steam. It comes from 'ice', which is a translucent blue solid that is formed industrially out of pure chaos energy. When its struck forcefully, it sublimates into something that looks like steam if you squint hard enough.
[19:24] <+James_Knevitt> It's used mostly in weapons in place of gunpowder or explosives.
[19:24] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
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[19:24] <~Dan> Howdy, jeff, Brad!
[19:25] <+Brad_Elliott> Howdy, Dan! How you, man?
[19:25] <~Dan> Doing well, thanks! Here for the Q&A?
[19:25] <+GenoFoxx> you were with DP9?
[19:25] <+Brad_Elliott> Yep, you got it. Curiosity, natch.
[19:25] <+James_Knevitt> And it's funny Brad should enter, since I shopped City of Clocks to Eos Press a looooong time ago. (I wonder if Brad even remembers?)
[19:25] <~Dan> James: So what is the bleeding edge of tech in the City of Clocks? Feel free to give examples in different areas.
[19:25] <+Brad_Elliott> I have a very minor history with CoC.
[19:25] <+Brad_Elliott> As James said!
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[19:26] <~Dan> Howdy, LW!
[19:26] <+Brad_Elliott> Of course I do, James! Still have the files, even! I forget NOTHING. :)
[19:26] <+jeffszusz> evening
[19:26] <+James_Knevitt> I wasn't "with" DP9 as such. I pitched it to DP9 and they liked the idea so we (Nick Pilon, John Buckmaster and myself) started writing it.
[19:26] <+GenoFoxx> ah
[19:26] <+James_Knevitt> Nick and John deserve credit since they were my not-so-silent partners in the beginning.
[19:27] <+Brad_Elliott> I liked the DP9 guys the few times I met 'em.
[19:28] <+James_Knevitt> They're both still with RPGnet as far as I know (Nick as "egarwaen" and John as "John Buckmaster" I think.)
[19:28] <+James_Knevitt> (done! More questions! FEED THE BEAST!)
[19:28] <+Silverlion> How well is a ssytemless book doing?
[19:28] <~Dan> Did you see my tech question, James?
[19:29] <+Brad_Elliott> That's a great question, Silverlion! I am curious of that myself.
[19:29] <+James_Knevitt> Dan: asked and answered (sort of). There's a lot of weird tech implied in the setting, so it's not all steam (or rather, 'steam').
[19:29] <+James_Knevitt> As for howe well it's doing, I have no idea. That's a question for Johnathan Thompson of Battlefield Press.
[19:30] <+James_Knevitt> I do know it made #76 on RPGnow on day of release. :P
[19:30] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[19:30] <~Dan> (I have Jonathan on FB and am forwarding him that question.)
[19:31] <+Silverlion> Awesome.
[19:31] <~Dan> James: Oh, I meant my second question, about the bleeding edge of tech in various areas: military, transportation, etc.
[19:31] <+Silverlion> What other fantastic elements does it have? Fantasy races?
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[19:32] <+James_Knevitt> Bleeding tech! Here's where I show the wizard behind teh curtain and tell you where I cribbed all my tech ideas.
[19:33] <*Jonathan_M_Thompson:*> It is doing very well. I'm happy with the sales numbers in the short time it's been out.
[19:33] <+Silverlion> Cool.
[19:33] <+James_Knevitt> Wow, its like we summoned Bettlejuice.
[19:34] <+James_Knevitt> Firearms and explosives are WWI-WWII era weaponry, powered by 'ice' rather than gunpowder, as noted earlier.
[19:34] <+Brad_Elliott> Past almost-publishers, current actual publishers... <grins>
[19:34] <~Dan> (Heh. No, just me NPCing him. :) )
[19:35] <+James_Knevitt> There are vehicles that use 'ice' too. There are clockwalkers, which (showing my hand here) I imagine look like a mix between APUs and WH40K's Penitent Engines.
[19:35] <+Silverlion> I've no idea what either of those are?
[19:35] <+James_Knevitt> There are also aeropterons, which are turbo-fan flight vehicles.
[19:36] <~Dan> Is that a term you made up?
[19:36] <+James_Knevitt> Clockwalkers are bipedal walker-type vehicles that are loaded with weaponry of all kinds.
[19:36] <+James_Knevitt> Aeropteron? Yes.
[19:37] <~Dan> Cool. :)
[19:37] <+James_Knevitt> As far as I can recall.
[19:37] <+James_Knevitt> Oh wait!
[19:37] <+James_Knevitt> no, it's not. I cribbed that too.
[19:37] <~Dan> Ah. Well, it's still a cool word. :)
[19:38] <+James_Knevitt> It's from Jospeh Hardaker's poem "The Aeropteron, or Steam Carriage"
[19:38] <~Dan> Are there automatic weapons, and if so, are they man-portable?
[19:38] <+James_Knevitt> Yes, and sort of.
[19:39] <+James_Knevitt> There's the beginnings of things like automatic rifles, but that tech is still a ways off. There are larger automatic weapons, though, that are often fixed to clockwalkers for *ahem* "civil pacification".
[19:39] <~Dan> Heh. :)
[19:40] <~Dan> What is the city's relationship to the world around it?
[19:40] <+James_Knevitt> City of Clocks is a setting about revolution, so there's a lot of "can we slap together something that approximates a weapon enough that it will kill the other guy and not us?" So there's undoubtedly a lot of automatic weapons out there in all but name,
[19:41] <+James_Knevitt> The City itself is generally considered a shining beacon, an advanced city-state in a world that has fallen to despair. The Old Kingdoms, where most of humanity originated, are in disrepair after great infighting and disease.
[19:42] <+James_Knevitt> There are relations with the far-off Ch'an Empire, but these are infrequent and inconclusive.
[19:42] <+James_Knevitt> There was an earlier question about fantasy races.
[19:42] <+Dritz> anyone want a copy of Sanctum? I've got an extra Steam key from a bundle
[19:42] <+Dritz> (if you don't know, it's a first person tower defense + shooting game)
[19:43] <+Brad_Elliott> Off-topic, Dritz.
[19:43] <+Dritz> oh, sorry, is there a Q&A going on? >.>
[19:43] <+Dritz> just tabbed in without looking, my bad
[19:43] <+Silverlion> Yes. :D
[19:43] <+James_Knevitt> There are four primary races -- Humans, Sentenni, Geks, and Constructs. Humans are, well, us. Sentenni are a weid offshoot of humanity that wandered around in the desert for thousands of years and were subtly ... changed by the experience.
[19:45] <+James_Knevitt> Geks are insectoids, with a sexapodal morphology that live in great communal clusters and who are essentially living computers (they make great accountants).
[19:46] <+James_Knevitt> Constructs are artificial creatures, made in the distant past to act as a servitor race. They're very anachronistic looking. They're not golems or warforged-like. They're straight up fantasy androids that have weird tech inside that nobody knows how to use
[19:47] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[19:48] <~Dan> So what is the tech level like outside of the City?
[19:48] <+xyphoid_> how do you think it would go for dropping into an existing setting?
[19:49] <+James_Knevitt> It's a touch less than the City itself, only because the City tends to keep a lid on who gets to play with its toys. The powers that be don't make a habit of trading weapons tech. There's also the complicating factor of 'ice' only being available in the City itself by dint of geography, so even if weapons or other 'ice' tech were smuggled out,
[19:49] <+James_Knevitt> they'd only work for a limited time.
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[19:50] <~Dan> Does this mean that the City can't afford to be expansionist?
[19:50] <~Dan> (Howdy, willows!)
[19:51] <+willows> hi
[19:51] <+James_Knevitt> While I don't explicitly state it, I presume in CoC that gunpowder either doesn't work or is unsuitable for projectile weapons, so it would probably look like a gunpowder-less Renaissance.
[19:52] <+James_Knevitt> The City is very insular. It has what it needs and has no interest in being an expansionist entity, only because empires ultimately never work and they learned that lesson from the Old Kingdoms; the City was once an Old Kingdoms outpost/colony and look what happened to them
[19:52] <+James_Knevitt> It's got no problem with bringing the hammer down on those that might threaten its stability, however, and lately this has extended to rabblerousers and revolutionaries inside its walls.
[19:53] <+James_Knevitt> As for dropping it into an existing setting-- if you have a way to reconcile the tech level with your game, sure. You could probably file the serial numbers off and call it all magic, replacing tech with magic-equivalent items.
[19:54] <+James_Knevitt> The underlying 'story' of the City is still the same.
[19:54] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[19:55] <~Dan> Is there actual magic in the setting, or is it all weird tech?
[19:56] <+James_Knevitt> I very obliquely imply magic in some places, but it's generally all weird tech.
[19:56] <+James_Knevitt> I treated the idea of magic as "this is a thing we don't quite understand but others do and they called it magic"
[19:57] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
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[19:58] <~Dan> What sorts of creatures exist in the setting other than the aforementioned nonhuman species?
[19:59] <+James_Knevitt> That's an interesting question. Are you asking in general, or are you asking "what kinds of creatures might a PC know about?"
[19:59] <+James_Knevitt> There's a difference. ;)
[19:59] <+James_Knevitt> The former is spoiler-riffic. The latter, not so much.
[20:00] <~Dan> Hmm. Well, let's start with the latter. :)
[20:01] <+James_Knevitt> Easy answer. I don't go a lot into flora or fauna, because I was aware that folks might want to drop the City into their own games (rather than playing it 'vanilla') so I was deliberately vague.
[20:02] <+James_Knevitt> Assume "whatever your setting has" with the default being "whatever makes sense".
[20:02] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[20:02] <~Dan> Okay. So how do you feel about the spoilers? :)
[20:04] <+James_Knevitt> To be honest, I'd rather not spoil things, mostly because knowing the big secret(s) behind the setting really changes the tone of the game if you're a player.
[20:04] <~Dan> Fair enough!
[20:05] <~Dan> Are there any default assumptions about who the PCs are and what they're doing?
[20:05] <+James_Knevitt> In other words, go buy City of Clocks! Only $12.50 on RPGnow.com!
[20:05] * ~Dan chuckles
[20:07] <~Dan> (brb)
[20:07] <+James_Knevitt> (done diddly-done!)
[20:10] <+James_Knevitt> (I can also field questions on my other work too, if people tire of me babbling about City of Clocks)
[20:11] <~Dan> (back!)
[20:11] <~Dan> Did you see my last question?
[20:11] <~Dan> re: default assumptions
[20:11] <+James_Knevitt> Default assumptions: wow, that's a big question.
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[20:11] <+James_Knevitt> No?
[20:12] <~Dan> Heh. Fair answer. :)
[20:12] <~Dan> (Howdy, Wondy!)
[20:12] <+James_Knevitt> There's a default 'state of play' -- the city is on the edge of revolution, with the mysterious Incarna leading the fight. Players might be these Incarna, individuals with strange and eerie powers. That would make sense.
[20:12] <+James_Knevitt> They might also be Joe Average.
[20:13] <~Dan> How do you distinguish "strange and eerie powers" from magic? Are they more like mystic superpowers?
[20:13] <+xyphoid_> Do you have much about how things will change during the game? A revolution-based campaign sounds neat but presumably you're going to break the setting-as-described pretty quick?
[20:13] <+James_Knevitt> I love the idea of a two-person party formed of a Public Advocate and a Public Prosecutor going around solving crimes.
[20:14] <+James_Knevitt> Dan: exactly, yes.
[20:14] <+James_Knevitt> Superpowers with the serial numbers filed off.
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[20:15] <+Brad_Elliott> Hey, Le Squide!
[20:15] <+James_Knevitt> Xyphoid_: that depends on how folks want to play it. One GM could blow the whole thing to pieces as you say. Another GM might go with a slow-burn campaign with the revolution playing its part, but at a relaxed pace. Even further, a GM could ignore the stuff about the revolution and the Incarna entirely.
[20:16] <+James_Knevitt> It's written so that the revolution and the Incarna can be ignored if the GM doesn't like it.
[20:16] <+James_Knevitt> You could use it as a generic city sourcebook with an autocratic Parliament at the top and the little guy at the bottom.
[20:16] <~Dan> (Howdy, Squide!)
[20:17] <+James_Knevitt> (dooooone)
[20:18] <~Dan> So let's say you were going to run the setting. What system would you use?
[20:19] <+James_Knevitt> BRP, because it's dead easy to fudge stuff.
[20:20] <+James_Knevitt> And because it handles trad fantasy through contemporary stuff pretty well.
[20:20] <~Dan> Seems like a good choice. Would you use the "Big Gold Book" ruleset?
[20:20] <+James_Knevitt> Certainly.
[20:21] <~Dan> With the superpowers for the "eerie powers"?
[20:21] <+James_Knevitt> Or Mongoose's Legend with some fudging.
[20:21] * ~Dan nods
[20:21] <+James_Knevitt> I'd also probably give ORE a shot, using Wild Talents as a base, but I may be biased there.
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[20:22] <~Dan> (Howdy, Clear_Runway!)
[20:23] <~Dan> On a related note -- and this may be kind of a weird question -- was it difficult for you to write a systemless setting? I'm a "rules are system physics" guy, and I'd have a hard time just creating a setting on its own.
[20:24] <+James_Knevitt> I'm a worldbuilder at heart, so it was much eaier than writing with a system in mind.
[20:24] <+James_Knevitt> easier*
[20:24] <+James_Knevitt> It felt much freer.
[20:24] <~Dan> I can see that.
[20:25] <~Dan> So it was easy for you to work with no system in mind at all?
[20:25] <+James_Knevitt> Yes, absolutely.
[20:26] <+Clear_Runway> hi, Dan
[20:26] <~Dan> Interesting. I tried doing something like that at one point, and my brain kept wanting to figure out how what I was writing would be accomplished mechnically. :)
[20:27] <~Dan> Would you like to mention your other projects, James?
[20:30] <+James_Knevitt> I've written for Eclipse Phase and The Laundry RPG, and edited a whole pile of stuff, from _Delta Green: Targets of Opportunity_ to _Black Devils Brigade_ for Godlike
[20:30] <+xyphoid_> hey what'd you do for EP
[20:30] <+James_Knevitt> to non-gaming stuff, like the Cthulhu Mythos Encyclopedia and Zombies of the World
[20:31] <+James_Knevitt> Products I've worked on have won and been nominated for Ennies. Two products I contributed to as a writer are up for Origins Awards this year.
[20:31] <+Dritz> ooer, Laundry RPG was something I was vaguely interested in thanks to loving the books. Was it any good? :p
[20:32] <+James_Knevitt> Zombies of the World won the 2012 Benjamin Franklin Award in the Humor category. (It was written by Ross Payton of RPPR fame)
[20:32] <+James_Knevitt> The Laundry RPG is wonderful.
[20:32] <+Dritz> awesome, I might have to check it out sometime
[20:32] <+James_Knevitt> It was a pleasure writing for it and editing for it (I edited the adventure anthology _Black Bag Jobs_)
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[20:34] <+James_Knevitt> At some point, Ben Baugh (RPGnet's Bailywolf) and I will actually write our gigantic near-future SF opus that we've been spitballing for 5 or 6 years.
[20:34] <+xyphoid_> okay I found you in Rimward and Gatecrashing heh
[20:34] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, InkyHat!)
[20:34] <+James_Knevitt> Writing for Eclipse Phase was fun, because I deliberately set out to write ridiculous stuff that made sense for EP.
[20:35] <+James_Knevitt> I wanted my editor to say "no, this is too ridiculous".
[20:35] <+James_Knevitt> This did not happen.
[20:36] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[20:36] <+xyphoid_> Oh no, you didn't come up with MRGCNN did you?
[20:37] <+James_Knevitt> Nope, not mine.
[20:38] <~Dan> What's next for you?
[20:38] <+James_Knevitt> I came up with zombie crabs and the Fenrir morph and the Europan Leviathan and all sorts of stuff like that.
[20:39] <+James_Knevitt> Next is editing a crapload of stuff for Arc Dream, where I am safely ensconced as Line Editor for ORE products (ie products that use the One Roll Engine).
[20:40] <~Dan> What's been your most difficult gaming project?
[20:40] <+James_Knevitt> This means if somebody wants to pitch something for Wild Talents, Godlike, This Favored Land, Monsters & Other Childish Things, etc. etc then they need to hit me up.
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[20:41] <~Dan> (Howdy, jcfiala!)
[20:41] <+James_Knevitt> Difficult? Writing for the Laundry. I choked on stuff about the Serpent People and had to cut my losses on that. I had writers block something fierce, even though it was a small project.
[20:41] <+James_Knevitt> So that's my big gaming failure. Heck, I even got City of Clocks to print after a decade so that's not my biggest gaming failure any more.
[20:42] <~Dan> What was difficult about the Laundry incarnation of the Serpent People?
[20:43] <+James_Knevitt> I had a particular approach I wanted to take that wasn't really gelling in my mind, and I hit up against the deadline pretty hard. I was a bit saddened to hear that they weren't well recieved so I accept some guilt for that.
[20:44] <+Brad_Elliott> If you work in game publishing, failure's certainly a possibility. Goodness knows mine was huge enough! <winces in memory>
[20:44] <~Dan> I can see how that would be discouraging.
[20:44] <~Dan> Good on you for not letting that turn you off of writing, though!
[20:45] <+James_Knevitt> At the moment I'm hustling for more stuff with a few folks here and there. Gen Con should be a full court press this year.
[20:45] <~Dan> I'll bet!
[20:45] <+James_Knevitt> I am in love with Pelgrane Press' *13th Age* so that's my next target.
[20:46] <~Dan> Now, I know some people feel awkward about answering this question, so feel free to beg off, but... do you have any folks in the industry you'd love to work with at some point? Who'd be on your "dream team"?
[20:46] <+Brad_Elliott> (What a great question, Dan!)
[20:46] <+James_Knevitt> I'm working with some already, so that's easy -- Greg Stolze, Ben Baugh, Shane Ivey, Scott Glancy...
[20:46] <+James_Knevitt> But really?
[20:46] <+James_Knevitt> Hm.
[20:47] <+James_Knevitt> Ken Hite and Robin Laws (the deadly duo! More fearsome together than apart!)
[20:47] <~Dan> Excellent choices.
[20:47] <+Brad_Elliott> And funnier than hell in person, too, James!
[20:47] <+James_Knevitt> Jonathan Tweet, because Everway, Ars Magica, Over the Edge, and now 13th Age rock so hard.
[20:48] <~Dan> Would they be your go-to guys if you ever wanted a system designed for City of Clocks, for example? Or would you rather do the honors yourself?
[20:49] <+James_Knevitt> I honestly don't know.
[20:50] <+James_Knevitt> The last time I sat at the same table as Ken Hite, he compared Deadwood and Plato.
[20:50] <+James_Knevitt> It was like a moth watching a flame.
[20:50] <+James_Knevitt> The man is beyond mortal ken. (Pun intended.)
[20:50] <~Dan> Nicely done. :)
[20:51] <~Dan> We've got about 10 minutes left in "regular time"... Is there anything you'd like to cover we haven't brought up so far?
[20:51] <+James_Knevitt> Robin Laws has forgotten more about what constitutes the nature of story that most of us will ever learn.
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[20:52] <+James_Knevitt> All of these people intimidate me and if I work with them in the near or distant future, it is because they have vastly overestimated my talent and vastly underestimated my ability to bluff my way into plum industry gigs.
[20:52] <+James_Knevitt> Hm.
[20:52] <+James_Knevitt> 1. Don't pirate.
[20:54] <+James_Knevitt> It hurts our industry, which is often run at a loss, and hurts freelancers. Piracy in our industry IS lost sales, and lost sales mean smaller project budgets which means I don;t get writing or editing jobs, which mean I need to prostitute myself to pay bills.
[20:54] <+James_Knevitt> I joke, but I'm also being serious.
[20:54] <+James_Knevitt> We are a multi-thousand dollar industry, not a multi-million dollar industry.
[20:54] <+James_Knevitt> We can't afford it.
[20:54] <+James_Knevitt> 2. Buy local.
[20:55] <+etaoinshrdlu> 3. Buy organic ?
[20:55] <+etaoinshrdlu> (ignore me)
[20:55] *** Blazing_Phoenix is now known as Lioness
[20:55] <+James_Knevitt> Use Amazon if you must, but please patronize your mom and pop gaming stores. They rely on your patronage to survive. We need more of them, not less.
[20:56] <+James_Knevitt> They are a dying breed. There won;t be any more in 20 years unless we keep them alive.
[20:56] <+James_Knevitt> 3. Look after your teeth.
[20:56] <+James_Knevitt> Unless you're an infant, you've already gone through one set. You're on your permanents now, which aren't as permanent as you might think.
[20:57] <+James_Knevitt> 4. Make someone's job easier every day.
[20:57] <+James_Knevitt> Pick up litter in a workplace bathroom. Hold a door open. Help someone without being asked.
[20:58] <+James_Knevitt> If you make their job easier, it makes their day better. I don;t believe in karma, but I believe in being nice to people, regardless of who they are. We need more of that.
[20:58] <+James_Knevitt> 5. Don't proselytize in IRC chats about gaming.
[20:58] * ~Dan chuckles
[20:58] <+James_Knevitt> Seriously. It makes you look like a tool.
[20:58] <+James_Knevitt> (done)
[20:59] <~Dan> Nicely said, James. :)
[20:59] <+etaoinshrdlu> So ... if someone looks like a tool, can you find them in hardware stores ?
[20:59] <+etaoinshrdlu> Or, alternately, abandon them there ?
[20:59] <+James_Knevitt> Abandoned, unloved, neglected, passed over for newer shinier things.
[20:59] <~Dan> That'll wrap things up for our scheduled Q&A time, James, but as I said, you're welcome to hang out as long as you like.
[21:00] <~Dan> In fact, game authors are always welcome to hang out here and discuss their products.
[21:00] <+Silverlion> Does it count if I'm prosleytizing about gaming in an RPG IRC room?
[21:00] <+etaoinshrdlu> It counts. But only up to 3.
[21:00] <+Silverlion> Heh
[21:00] <+Brad_Elliott> I noticed, Dan... given that when I first appeared in here you thought I was here to push a new game, which I'm not yet ready to do. :D
[21:00] <+James_Knevitt> As much as it's been quite fun, I need to go to bed. I have a lot of friends in Boston, so as one might expect, it's been A Day.
[21:00] <+etaoinshrdlu> (I don't know what I'm saying, feel free to ignore me. :P)
[21:00] <~Dan> I would, though, like to thank you for coming by and chatting with us, James!
[21:00] <+James_Knevitt> So I am outta here, peeps!
[21:01] <+etaoinshrdlu> Take care!
[21:01] <+etaoinshrdlu> :)
[21:01] <~Dan> Oh, I'll bet. :(
[21:01] <+Silverlion> Brad always has evil work to do.
[21:01] <~Dan> Take care, James!
[21:01] <+Silverlion> Later James
[21:01] <+James_Knevitt> Thanks everyone. It's been fun!