[19:18] <+KyleSimons> Sure. Hi everyone, my name is Kyle Simons, I'm 27 years old and am currently a student at Kyunghee University in Seoul, Korea majoring in Korean education. I've designed, written and recently launched a kickstarter for my tabletop rpg, Magicians. Magicians is designed to teach you the Korean language and the setting is basically Harry Potter in Seoul Korea.
[19:19] <+KyleSimons> everyone plays characters that are students at a school for magic and instead of western tropes like vampires and werewolves I draw my inspiration from Korean culture, mythology, superstitions and urban legends
[19:19] <+KyleSimons> that's pretty much the elevator pitch, I'd love to answer any and all questions anyone might have!
[19:20] <+Silverlion> How does the system work?
[19:21] <+KyleSimons> the system is designed to walk you through learning a language. The resolution mechanic is casting spells and to do so you need to speak Korean
[19:21] <+KyleSimons> you start off by using a noun and verb combo system
[19:21] <+KyleSimons> 13 words you combine in any order, like Ars Magica
[19:21] <+KyleSimons> then, you have to choose your own noun and verb to suite the intent, build your vocab
[19:22] <+KyleSimons> once you get that down you cast spells by speaking in full sentences, with certain types of magic using certain grammar patterns and key vocab (time magic uses numbers, telekinetic magic requires learning prepositions, directions, etc)
[19:22] <&Le_Squide> So, why did you decided to do a sort of pedagogical RPG? It's a very cool idea.
[19:22] <+Silverlion> Nice. I like the idea.
[19:23] <+KyleSimons> instead of using dice as the random element, you use a dictation app on your computer or smartphone. Since pronunciation is so important, once you choose your sentence or noun and verb combo you speak that sentence or couple words into the phone. If it understands you, i.e. writes down what you said as you wrote it you succeed.
[19:23] <+KyleSimons> I started out wanting a more robust system for magic. In my favorite books like Harry Potter, Wizard of Earthsea or Magicians, Dresden Files there is always a vocal component
[19:23] <+Silverlion> Is there a specific app?
[19:23] <+KyleSimons> but no rpgs have that really, it's always abstracted
[19:24] <+KyleSimons> -- there are many dictation apps out there. I use Dragon Dictation for iOS, handcent for Android, both are free
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[19:24] <+KyleSimons> by using an actual language for magic you get a better feel for magic
[19:24] <+Silverlion> I agree. :D
[19:25] <+KyleSimons> I wanted a robust, vocal component, and especially books like the Earthsea books - it's always a language
[19:25] <+Teylen> are there any kind of additional rules or is it all about "What you can say is what you can do"?
[19:25] <+KyleSimons> so I just thought, why not use an existing language, the resources are there and you actually get to learn a skill you can use in real life instead of like, Elvish, which no one speaks
[19:25] <+KyleSimons> ...mostly
[19:26] <+Silverlion> My game uses poetry, so I'm cool with the idea..:D
[19:26] <+KyleSimons> In terms of casting magic, what you can say is what you can cast, and so you will be failing a lot in your games, particularly in the beginning. Thus it was really important to me that failure not be in the D&D vein of "you don't succeed, now what do you do" and more of a Burning Wheel stakes negotation
[19:27] <+KyleSimons> "if i succeed, this happens, I look cool, I achieve my intent, if I fail, this happens, a consequence is introduced, I might not look as cool, etc"
[19:27] <+KyleSimons> failure should make the game more fun, because it's going to happen a lot
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[19:27] <+Geek2theRight> I want this game so much! And the coins. Foreign coins are neat.
[19:28] <+KyleSimons> but by using that app on your phone instead of having a teacher or having someone telling you when you're wrong it removes that adversarial component I think. People are more willing to make a mistake because a computer is saying you're wrong. Plus you can practice anytime, anywhere
[19:28] <+KyleSimons> thanks! I love the coins as well, I use them for all my games
[19:28] <+KyleSimons> currently using them in Pathfinder, work great for FATE, or anything that has a currency mechanic really
[19:29] <+Teylen> they do look stylish :)
[19:29] <~Dan> What's the non-magic system like?
[19:29] <+Silverlion> Awesome.
[19:29] <+KyleSimons> thanks! I've really been blown away by how much support the game has been getting
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[19:29] <~Dan> Welcome to #rpgnet, Fiyero!
[19:30] <+Fiyero> Hello
[19:30] <~Dan> Here for the Q&A?
[19:30] <+Fiyero> yep
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[19:30] <+Geek2theRight> We now have Korean and Japanese. Maybe French as a $40k stretch goal? ;)
[19:30] <~Dan> In progress! Ask away!
[19:30] <+KyleSimons> since the game is about learning a language, and you need to cast a spell to do so, conflict resolution revolves around that. If there is a conflict you can either a) use magic to break the conflict in your favor or b) let your character lose or be affected negatively in some way. In which case you get drama points, which are the currency you use to cast magi
[19:30] <~Dan> Welcome, CMatter!
[19:31] <+CMatter> Hello! Sorry I'm late. Dinner ran over
[19:31] <+KyleSimons> French is definitely an option, we'll see! Being Canadian my French isn't bad, but pretty rusty. Mostly Korean comes out when I try for another language
[19:31] <+KyleSimons> I was late too, no worries XD
[19:32] <~Dan> I'm not sure I follow you, Kyle.... How would someone, say, climb a wall?
[19:32] <+KyleSimons> I've been taking some classes for translating French to Korean. It has been a mind-numbingly difficult experience
[19:32] <+KyleSimons> if there's an obstacle in your way you either narrate past it or use magic! You should only stop narrating if there's a conflict or something at stake
[19:32] <+Teylen> How difficult is it in general to apply the logic the game uses to teach another language? (When I introduced the Kickstarter at a German RPG webboard there were comments like ".. Would be even better if it also could be used for english.")
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[19:32] <+KyleSimons> if getting over the wall is important to the story, cast magic, if not, narrate past
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[19:33] <~Dan> Hmm. So a conflict only matters if you can use magic to address it?
[19:33] <+KyleSimons> I get that a lot! The concepts apply universally - whenever you learn a language you start with pronunciation, the alphabet, build up vocab and then learn grammar patterns you can plug that grammar in and out of
[19:35] <+KyleSimons> Hmm I wouldn't put it that way. Narrating something doesn't make it unimportant, but if you want to come out on top in a conflict you use magic to creatively "succeed" or achieve the intent of your character, yes. Magic is fueled by your character's unhappiness basically - being a teenager, that's the fuel that powers their magic. In most conflicts you can
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[19:35] <+KyleSimons> either choose to "lose" and earn points to cast spells later, or, if it's important to you and the character that you "win" you "succeed" or achieve your intent via magic
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[19:36] <~Dan> So, how would you punch an opponent?
[19:36] <+KyleSimons> The language learning aspect though can be applied to any language, at 15k we hit the stretch goal for my "hack pack" which will be my notes for how to hack it for other languages, change the setting, etc.
[19:37] <+KyleSimons> you would narrate that dan. if you get into a fist fight say you would simply narrate it. if that situation generates drama, you earn points. If you character wants to overcome the bully or something they would use magic, or you could simply narrate a stalemate, wrestling around, whatever
[19:38] <+Teylen> Is there a GM or is it GM-less?
[19:38] <+KyleSimons> all conflict resolution is resolved by speaking the target language i.e. casting magic
[19:39] <+KyleSimons> every round, the role of the GM changes - the GM's job is to make those consequences for failure interesting and to advance the story. There is a card mechanic that is used to generate story - at the beginning of the game players all write down cool stuff they want to see be part of the game. whenever it's the GM's turn they draw a card and use whatever is on
[19:39] <+KyleSimons> the card to narrate a scene and add to the story
[19:40] <+KyleSimons> once he does that, the role of the GM passes to the right, while play continues to the left. So everyone gets a chance to draw a card and add to the story
[19:40] <+KyleSimons> so not quite GM-less but definitely not a traditional GM either
[19:40] <+CMatter> Are the limitations to casting magic literally whatever you can imagine?
[19:41] <~Dan> I take it that the PCs don't really have stats?
[19:41] <+KyleSimons> no stats dan no, just casting magic and earning drama points.
[19:41] <+KyleSimons> and yeah! pretty much
[19:42] <+KyleSimons> at the higher difficulty levels certain types of magic require certain grammar patterns
[19:42] <~Dan> How do you define the opposition?
[19:42] <+KyleSimons> so some will be more comfortable than others
[19:43] <+Teylen> Then I assume the Card Decks (that got achieved by Strech Goals) are used to subsituted or add to the Cards the players create?
[19:43] <+KyleSimons> at the start of the game when players sit down and make these cards they each get 3 cards to write something on. On the first card you write an object, location or challenge. Second card a person or faction. Third card a monster, threat or challenge.
[19:43] <+KyleSimons> you assign a number to these cards that determines how many drama points, how much magic, needs to be spent on these cards before they are resolved
[19:44] <+KyleSimons> essentially, one drama point equals one "hit point" so if a threat has a 5 point value, it means players need to use 5 drama points casting spells on it before it is resolved
[19:44] <+KyleSimons> the stretch goal cards are instead of doing that process in the beginning - instead of all sitting down to write down your cards
[19:44] <+KyleSimons> you just pull out a pack from one of the stretch goals and jump in
[19:45] <+KyleSimons> or yeah, you could substitute some cards, add to an existing deck you've made, etc
[19:45] <+KyleSimons> or just take out the artwork and use it for your own cards!
[19:45] <~Dan> Are there NPC magicians?
[19:45] <+CMatter> Oooo! That's a good one!
[19:46] <+Geek2theRight> I'd just throw 2 decks together and see what happens.
[19:46] <+KyleSimons> yep, player's may narrate scenes in which NPC magicians come into the story. or if they are on a threat card - a villain or something they are assigned points as well. The number of points you assign not only determine how many "hit points" they have but also what kinds of attacks they can do
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[19:47] <+KyleSimons> so they might have "fire ball spell : 2 points" etc, which would do 2 points to your own character. Except it wouldn't just be fire ball, it would have the words you speak to cast that spell
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[19:47] <~Dan> Sounds like this is a 3rd-person RPG, of sorts.
[19:48] <+KyleSimons> because you can also negate spells cast against you - a the basic level, spending points and repeating the spell back properly cancels it. At the higher level you have to take the spell and parrot it back in the negative to cancel it. NPC magicians would be played by the GM that round
[19:48] <+KyleSimons> yes, it's in the story-game vein you could say
[19:48] * ~Dan nods
[19:48] <+KyleSimons> it's more about telling a good story and creating a good atmosphere to learn a language in
[19:49] <~Dan> Sure.
[19:49] <~Dan> What forms does the opposition take other than evil magicians?
[19:50] <+KyleSimons> hopefully all the players are playing the game with the assumption in mind that they want to learn this language, so you can motivate and root for one another, and my favorite part is that advancement in the game is education! as you get better, you the player at a language you can use in real life, your character in the game is getting more powerful and
[19:50] <+KyleSimons> getting more awesome
[19:51] <+KyleSimons> you're only limited by what you write on your threat cards - anything can be assigned a threat value. I've had evil magicians, intangible threats like diseases or spells on the loose, shadows coming to life
[19:51] <+Silverlion> I wish I were not break or I'd put money up for it/buy it.
[19:51] <+KyleSimons> well we're far over the funding so I'll definitely make it available in some way after the kickstarter!
[19:51] <+Teylen> There are aspects of languages that are more about personal interaction, like adressing someone. Would those encounters be handled like some kind of "Social combat"?
[19:51] <+KyleSimons> I'm in Korea so I'm not sure about international business...i don't know how well paypal works here and the like but I'll figure something out
[19:52] <+KyleSimons> sorry do you mean like the forms of speech in the Korean language or how you deal with roleplaying a social encounter?
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[19:53] <+KyleSimons> a social encounter would be the same as a physical one. You would narrate it and roleplay it out - if there's conflict there and you want your character to come out on top you do so via magic - casting a spell to appear eloquent or influence people, etc. If the conflict matters but you need, want or think the story is better served by you losing the conflict
[19:54] <+Teylen> Am currently trying to learn french. And the course goes on about stuff like being able to ask some one how he's doing, if there is a room or if he / she could bring some drinks/food and stuff. I imagine it to be difficult to implement those stuff into a combat (though am not very expierenced at teaching languages)
[19:54] <+KyleSimons> you break it in their favor and are rewarded with drama points you later use to cast spells
[19:54] <+KyleSimons> ah ha!
[19:54] <+Geek2theRight> I'm guessing that properly addressing people would be one of those grammar things tied to a specific kind of magic.
[19:54] <+KyleSimons> okay, so that's right geek2right
[19:54] <+KyleSimons> grammar patterns - so asking for things is one of the types of magic
[19:55] <+KyleSimons> questions basically is one group and is for sage magic or clairvoyance.
[19:55] <+KyleSimons> finding out information basically
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[19:56] <+KyleSimons> also, polite and impolite speech are addressed when speaking with magical creatures - if it is physically bigger than you then you use formal speech, if the creature is smaller than you or your familiar you use impolite speech
[19:56] <+KyleSimons> most key vocab and grammar patterns are dealt with by how you cast the spell rather than the situations that arise in the game
[19:57] <+Teylen> Ah, I see
[19:57] <+KyleSimons> striking magic is for learning the parts of the body, time magic is for telling time, numbers, telekinetic magic is for prepositions, directions, etc
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[19:59] <+KyleSimons> and since instead of using dice for the success and failure mechanic you're using your phone and it's based on pronunciation success is a skill you can learn and practice so I think it's something players will actively pursue even when not playing
[19:59] <+KyleSimons> if you've got a smartphone you can practice anytime, come up with your own spells to use later, etc
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[19:59] <+Geek2theRight> Set the monster's pancreas on fire!
[20:00] <+KyleSimons> haha yes!
[20:00] <+Teylen> Kill the korean Gazebo XD
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[20:01] <+KyleSimons> certain languages will need certain tweaking though of course or allow for more possibilities - french, german, etc all have gender whereas Korean doesn't
[20:01] <+KyleSimons> so it wasn't something I had to address
[20:01] <+KyleSimons> I could see doing some fun stuff with it
[20:01] <+KyleSimons> especially for failed castings and consequences - if you use the reverse gender by accident maybe the spell has the opposite effect, etc
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[20:02] <~Dan> wb, blahbada365!
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[20:03] <~Dan> You said the default assumption is that the PCs are teenagers?
[20:03] <&Le_Squide> How much does the game go into monsters?
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[20:03] <+Geek2theRight> Or a complication! You successfully healed Samantha of the magic virus, but her voice is now strangely baritone.
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[20:04] <+KyleSimons> Yeah, I wanted that parallel to be there - you are a student of a language, your character is a student of language kind of thing. Plus their magic is fueled by their negative emotions and experiences - screams high school. However, I will be doing different settings that use different themes and such for a totally different experience in the future.
[20:04] <+KyleSimons> haha yes!
[20:05] <~Dan> Different magic settings, or...?
[20:05] <+KyleSimons> in the book? the monsters in the book that I talk about are drawn from Korean mythology, legends, urban legends
[20:05] <+blahbada365> sry my college blocked this site, so had to route it through phone, little more difficult
[20:05] <+KyleSimons> but you can define monsters however you want
[20:06] <&Le_Squide> Neat! I don't know much about actual Korean mythology; how much space do you devote to them?
[20:06] <+KyleSimons> well mostly I was thinking of all kinds of settings - prince of nothing type magic in that kind of setting, or barbarian viking shamans, all kinds of cool stuff that could be done
[20:06] <+KyleSimons> hmm let me pull up the setting chapter
[20:07] <+KyleSimons> probably about 20 pages actually probably more than that especially with artwork
[20:08] <+KyleSimons> also talking about how Korean dragons are different, or other creatures no one has heard of like the three-legged crows that live in the sun, the fire-eating haechi dog-lions, to things that people kind of know about from Japan like nine-tailed foxes, etc
[20:08] <&Le_Squide> Neat!
[20:08] <+Teylen> sounds cool
[20:09] <+KyleSimons> yeah, lots of cool stuff not often explored
[20:10] <+Geek2theRight> Kitsune.
[20:11] <+KyleSimons> yeah, or geumiho in Korea
[20:12] <+KyleSimons> I've got an actual play video up on the kickstarter for all those interested as well, I've been explaining things a bit hastily and off-handedly
[20:12] <+KyleSimons> but how the dictation app works, coming up with cards, playing out rounds is all up there and you can watch it happen
[20:14] <+KyleSimons> we've got a mini-con coming up in Korea too so I'm going to run it there and do another video, I've also done some videos to help with learning the alphabet, pronunciation for when people get started, have some handy sheets made up
[20:14] <+CMatter> I've seen the dictation app vid. I like how you actually got to explain how you have to get really close to your mic for it to pick up on the subtleties of the speech. That will be helpful for when my group gets together to learn/play
[20:14] <+KyleSimons> since the game is going to be the basis for my thesis you can count on a lot of support and I'm hoping for lots of feedback.
[20:15] <+KyleSimons> yeah, and it matters on the phone too, my 3GS doesn't work quite as well as my 4
[20:15] <+KyleSimons> siri can now do Korean as well so I'd like to playtest that
[20:15] <+KyleSimons> then you won't even need an app
[20:15] <+CMatter> That would be awesome.
[20:16] <+KyleSimons> android has it coming in soon too with their equivalent, majel
[20:16] <+CMatter> now I just need to get an iPhone!? *punches himself in the face*
[20:16] <+KyleSimons> still, until then we've got free apps that work well
[20:16] <+KyleSimons> haha I've got a galaxy s3 so no worries, I'm always on the look out for good android apps
[20:16] <+Teylen> Hm, how much does speech "quirks" like if someone lisps do affect those apps? (Haven't got alot of experienced with apps yet)
[20:16] <+CMatter> Oh good.
[20:17] <~Dan> What is the relationship between the PCs and the supernatural? Are they Buffy-style ass-kickers, for example?
[20:17] <+blahbada365> after i watched both videos, i think i downloaded 4 different apps for my droid
[20:17] <+KyleSimons> I assume speech quirks wouldn't work well the app, though they say it learns more as you go - I wouldn't want it to learn if other speakers wouldn't understand
[20:18] <+KyleSimons> they're at a school for magic, surrounded by the fantasy elements - in that way it's very harry potter
[20:18] <+KyleSimons> at the school lots of fantasy elements, in seoul it's more urban fantasy and dresden files-ish
[20:18] <+KyleSimons> where it's modern day life with those supernatural elements just below the surface
[20:18] <+CMatter> That is a challenge that will affect my group. One of my players has a significant speech impediment.
[20:19] <+KyleSimons> Yeah, I think that might be very frustrating
[20:19] <+Teylen> For me it's only a smaller one, but I know I tend to lisps (not that am not understood, but its recognisable)
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[20:19] <+KyleSimons> only way I could see getting around it is if one of the players is good enough at the target language to coach or arbitrate
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[20:20] <+KyleSimons> It might be a good way to practice your pronunciation then
[20:20] <+CMatter> We'll just have to see how it goes. I'm still counting on the game being remarkably entertaining!
[20:20] <+Teylen> Hm, maybe something like a % system might work? Like if ~90% is understood it counts?
[20:21] <+KyleSimons> another fun element I have are wards and defence, like shields
[20:21] <+CMatter> Do tell!
[20:21] <+KyleSimons> when you put them up at the start of the game you use tongue twisters, the harder the tongue twister you do the better the ward
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[20:21] <+CMatter> Oh yeah! I remember you mentioning that on Sharkbone.
[20:21] <+KyleSimons> yeah, Teylen, I was actually thinking of drawing inspiration from Apocalypse World for something like that maybe down the road
[20:21] <+Gyr|Laptop> Play-by-forum potential: Less than optimal.
[20:22] <+KyleSimons> like only one word wrong, partial success, etc
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[20:22] <+KyleSimons> that's why play-by-post was something I wanted to incorporate in the website - to have the option of sending, posting voice snippets as well
[20:22] <+KyleSimons> unfortunately to get that capability in there the lowest quote I've gotten is about 13k
[20:23] <+Teylen> About the Setting, I would assume that it might be possible to just declare the characters to be Buffyresk Slayers, Vampires or whatever who run around in America/Europe/Africa/MiddleEast and for one reason or another communicating their juice/magic stuff in Korean (or whatever language the group likes to learn)
[20:23] <+KyleSimons> still, it's something I'd love to do. Real time stuff like with google hangouts is great but forum play-by-posting with voice capability would be awesome for people will less time, plus mobile support
[20:24] <+KyleSimons> sure, at default you're brand new to the country, magic. you've just given up your senior year in high school to come to the school. So no friends, family, new culture, etc
[20:24] <+Teylen> Just as a thought, it might be played either by Google, maybe holding up the App or make Google understand. Or it might be played by Chat / Forum by correct writing (relying heavily on the assumption the players won't cheat)
[20:24] <+KyleSimons> how you want to run the game and use the setting is totally up to you though
[20:24] <+KyleSimons> or if they are just kind of accidentally running afoul of monsters and stories, pursuing them, it's all your own taste
[20:24] <~Dan> Is this a hidden magic or open magic setting?
[20:25] <+KyleSimons> hidden magic, only some can do it and the population at large is unaware of it and the supernatural elements
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[20:25] <+KyleSimons> it's still modern day so people have a baseline to jump into for those people new to rpgs
[20:25] <+KyleSimons> but with all those extra layers, and the fantasy elements near the school
[20:26] <+KyleSimons> harry potter is pretty mainstream these days so it was a good model to follow
[20:26] <+KyleSimons> yeah, forum play is possible but that vocal element is something I really want to make happen someday
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[20:29] <+Teylen> Some more technical question about the kickstarter. The T-Shirt looks great. Though I wonder if there's a female cut available (apart from the question how "big" S/M/L/XL actually is ^^; )
[20:30] <+KyleSimons> the T-shirts only come in M/L actually and there are a ton of different shirts, if you click on the image you'll see a bunch of examples
[20:30] <+KyleSimons> when the kickstarter finishes you can tell me what size, what kind of style you want - anime inspired, retro tattoos, day of the dead, etc
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[20:30] <+Teylen> ah cool
[20:30] <+KyleSimons> same with the beads, that stuff will be on the survey
[20:31] <+KyleSimons> so you can tell me your chinese zodiac, if you did any of the cross promotions, etc
[20:31] <+Geek2theRight> I did all the cross promotion things I saw just for the card packs. :p
[20:31] <+KyleSimons> I'm pretty excited about some of the spells people are coming up with for in the book, some really cool stuff
[20:31] <+KyleSimons> wow, nice! haha
[20:31] <+KyleSimons> I love kickstarters though, so it's a fun way to say thank you to people who like backing indie rpgs
[20:32] <+Geek2theRight> And I'm a rooster!
[20:32] <+KyleSimons> Ox for me, a bit boring
[20:32] <+Teylen> Ape @.@;
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[20:33] <+Geek2theRight> I love ks, but my wallet doesn't. ;)
[20:33] <+blahbada365> ^
[20:33] <+KyleSimons> hah, might want to double check your zodiac...
[20:33] <+KyleSimons> yeah, I know what you mean
[20:33] <+KyleSimons> and so much stuff I'd love to but can't back
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[20:33] <+Teylen> checked it again and am still a monkey xD
[20:33] <+KyleSimons> especially while working on the book, before launching the kickstarter I spent all my money on starting editing, artwork
[20:33] <+blahbada365> also, i'm a horse
[20:34] <+KyleSimons> haha yeah monkey, I was confused by ape is all
[20:34] <+KyleSimons> pretty diverse
[20:34] <+KyleSimons> I like the symbols on the beads for the zodiacs, pretty cool
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[20:34] <~Dan> Howdy, Kzar!
[20:36] <+KyleSimons> hmm I guess we must have covered the broad strokes. I'll hang around for a little bit longer but need to eat some breakfast, shower and get ready for life soon
[20:36] <+Teylen> Thanks for answering all those questions :)
[20:36] <+Kzar> Howdy!
[20:36] <+KyleSimons> No problem! If you have any more feel free to message me on kickstarter too, it sends me an email
[20:36] <+KyleSimons> Hi!
[20:37] <~Dan> If you think we've covered all the main points here, we can call the official Q&A, but you can hang out as long as you like, Kyle.
[20:37] <~Dan> Also, you're always welcome to come by and talk about your game whenever you like.
[20:38] <+KyleSimons> cool, sounds great. I've only got about another 5 min left.
[20:38] <+KyleSimons> awesome, sounds great. I'll pop in more often. Like I said, it's been forever XD
[20:38] <~Dan> Fair enough, Kyle! Thanks very much for taking the time to talk to us!
[20:39] <+blahbada365> ^
[20:39] <+KyleSimons> I'm just glad there were people who had questions! It's really great seeing the interest and support behind the game. Am very humbled and grateful to you all.
[20:39] <~Dan> I'll have the log posted at my blog momentarily.
[20:39] <+KyleSimons> Awesome!
[20:39] <~Dan> (The link is in the subject line.)
[20:39] <+CMatter> Thanks for coming to talk to us Kyle!
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